Shake It Off Podcast – Episode 4

KENDRA: Welcome to shake it off a podcast that gives you the tools, strategies, and stories to optimize and prioritize your physical and mental health. Hi, everyone, welcome back to shake it off. In today’s episode, we are going to discuss flow state, what it is, why it’s important, and how to achieve it. In life, we’re all really distracted, we’ve got our phones constantly by our side, and ultimately, we move throughout the day feeling distracted, which is taking away from our satisfaction in life, increasing our opportunities for flow can ultimately increase our life satisfaction. So Lauren, can you tell us a little bit more about flow state and what it is exactly? 

LAUREN: Sure, so you may have experienced flow state at some point. The sense of fluidity between your body and your mind, where you’re totally absorbed by and deeply focused on something beyond the point of distraction is flow state, you lose track of time, and some people describe the feeling as being in the zone. This is the flow state, and it’s accessible to everyone, whether you’re engaged in physical activity, a creative activity, or even just simple day to day tasks, which is my favorite thing to optimize my situation for flow state or work. And it’s really that feeling that you have where you’re fully consumed and something, and those feelings that would normally consume you under normal circumstances, like inhibition, fatigue, or your normal aches and pains kind of melt away. And all that matters is your dedication to whatever you’re working on. When you look at the special health report from Harvard Medical School that was published on positive psychology, they describe flow experiences as having some common characteristics. So when they looked at flow experiences for people who are engaged in challenging physical pursuits, they found that all of them had these common characteristics where you lose awareness of time you lose your awareness of, you know, you’re not watching the clock, and the hours can pass like minutes, you aren’t thinking about yourself. So your awareness of yourself is only in relation to the activity itself, such as your fingers on a piano keyboard, the way you position a knife to cut vegetables, or the balance of your body parts as you ski or surf. Like those are the things you’re aware of, you’re not aware of all of the other things that your mind is usually distracted by, and you’re not interrupted by those external thoughts. Instead, you’re really focused on mastering or explaining a line of thinking in your work. And that could be something like creating tears of beautiful icing for cake or visualizing your way out of a sticky chest situation. 

KENDRA: I like that, it’s interesting. I like how you said that people can describe that feeling as being in the zone because I have certainly heard that expression before. And exactly like you said, in terms of if someone’s playing the piano, or if they’re painting, or if they’re perhaps even playing in a sporting game, that they’re just in that zone of what they’re doing, and losing that awareness of time. Those are definitely a big indicator of flow. You’re also really active, which is kind of what you’re saying is like you’re losing track of time, and you’re active. So flow activities aren’t passive, usually. So it’s interesting that you say that they aren’t passive. So would you include watching Netflix or driving in a car as passive? 

LAUREN: That’s a really good question. The flow mental state is generally less common during periods of relaxation and mostly makes itself present during challenging and engaging activities. So when you’re watching TV, that’s seen as a passive activity, it wouldn’t be considered a flow state activity. But one of the passive flow state activities that researchers are looking at is driving in a car because your brain is still engaged in your wiring and a lot of people actually say that they feel those characteristics that I mentioned during driving. So driving could be a flow state activity, just an uncommon one from what we’re normally thinking of where you’re engaged in a challenging task. 

KENDRA: That’s interesting. I know, for example, I can relate I suppose when I go for a drive in the car, particularly those longer drives, you can get those same feelings and sensations that you speak of in that flow state. So I think I think that’s really interesting.

LAUREN: The key is that really to achieve flow state, you’re looking for engagement and concentration. So think about it, when you drive you definitely are experiencing that because you have to concentrate while you’re driving. You can’t just be off with the fairies, and it’s definitely something to think about. That’s interesting. So why is flow state important? Well, for decades, research was done exploring people’s satisfaction and their everyday activities. So initially, they weren’t looking for flow state, or what we call today’s flow state. They found that people report greater satisfaction when they are in flow. So when they are totally immersed in and concentrating on what they’re doing, they’re feeling more satisfaction. So that’s one reason why it’s important because I feel like today, a lot of people are experiencing stress and having heightened anxiety, and depression, there are heightened rates of this in the US and across the globe. So I think finding ways to have greater satisfaction in life is important. Also, it creates more opportunities for increasing your levels of happiness. So in this research, they also found that flow experiences lead to positive emotions in the short term. And over the long term, people who were more frequently experiencing, who more frequently experienced flow were generally happier. I’ve also done some research that found that people vary and how much they value having flow experiences, and then how easy it is to find that entry point for flow. 

KENDRA: That’s really interesting, because, you know, given the last couple years, and how disruptive all you all of our lives were with, obviously COVID. And many of the changes that result from that. So I can imagine that disruption for some and you know, in particular, I know, in Australia, there were quite heavy restrictions for many people, and so many times, they were just having to stay in their homes or within a 5k radius. So a lot of opportunities were, I suppose, limited for some people, and then that comes the depression and anxiety. I can imagine that this sense of flow state in today’s world is just so important now that we’re emerging on the other side, and not taking for granted the opportunities that can come from what we have now. 

LAUREN: Yeah, exactly. Well, that’s interesting because you’re in Australia, and in a lot of parts of the US there were heavy restrictions in where we live, which is in South Carolina, but you lived through that. And Australia, you were over there while there were heavy restrictions, so you experienced that firsthand. I think as far as experiencing flow, no matter what your natural tendency is to value flow, or not recognizing how flow occurs, or doesn’t in your life, and creating opportunities for more flow experiences can be a really potent route to increase happiness or life satisfaction.

KENDRA: I like that, that’s really interesting. And how would you say how can one achieve flow state?

LAUREN: So I was saying, there is a lot of evidence on how to achieve flow state. But a lot of this research was done in the 1990s, and in the early 2000s. And the good news about flow and happiness is that you can increase the number of flow experiences in your life and reap the benefits. Although it does take a certain amount of effort and comes more naturally to some people than others. So how you do that there are three kinds of key components that are looking forward to increasing the opportunities for flow. Mindfulness is the first one. So you want to practice being present. And to learn to focus and engage more easily. And kind of get rid of outside distractions. So that’s how you have mindfulness, put the phone away, be only present with that one activity at a time, and not trying to multitask to do something that matters. So you need to care about the task at hand, do something that you’re passionate about, for example, you know, if you’re at work, if this is like a work-related flow activity, and you’re feeling disconnected from the task, because not everything we do, we’re going to love right? So it’s one of those tasks that you’re or projects that you’re not very into. asking for feedback from your peers or your customers or from your managers on how your work impacts them. You want to see how your work is making a difference. So that will increase your caring about that, that it will matter to you. So first is mindfulness. The second is to do something that matters. So the third piece is to master something, matching your skill level to the challenge is really important here. And when you’re thinking about mastering something, it’s not that you have to start out being great at it. I know Kendra, you, and we started surfing in about 2015. And we had a skill level of zero. We have been trying to surf for a couple of years, and it just wasn’t working out. And how we were able to master that by breaking it down into small steps. So it’s about making progress, not about perfection. And we did this by we worked with one of our friends, Alice Macmillan, who is a surf instructor in Australia. So I reached out to Alice and said, Hey, I have a group of girls here. We want to learn how to surf. Where do we do, and she got us starting in the Whitewater, we didn’t start out in the big waves. We started in a whitewater. And we actually started on land, just learning the basics. And then we got into the whitewater, and then eventually made our way out into the green waves, which is what we call the waves that are breaking in Australia, and eventually made our way out to the lineup. And it’s breaking it down into small steps, making it easy and achievable, but also a challenge. And it was and it still is even when I’m out in the lineup here. So it’s knowing what your next step is, and kind of learning from that last experience so that you can continue to master it is what keeps your brain engaged. Absolutely. And I found it during that period. I mean, you talked about breaking it into small steps. And you mentioned we were on the land. I mean, I didn’t even know how this was like the surfboard. I mean, I was ground-level zero. For hours I had to really run through the basics, but it was amazing. I mean, like you mentioned we really worked on mastering those small steps incrementally. And I found that because we were doing that in the morning, it really set me up for the day. And so can you talk about the flow state, I felt like it did increase more and more opportunities that were presenting themselves for that ultimate flow state in my life. It was awesome. Yeah, that’s right. It’s all about starting your day kind of distraction-free. One hack for this, actually, I’ll just mention right now is to actually sleep with your phone away from you, which is even better if it’s in your car because of the night before. While you’re getting ready for bed, you’re kind of also setting your next day out for this distraction-free mode and waking up without first looking at your phone. So you’d need an alarm clock. Or if you’re the type of person who just wakes up without an alarm, then that work could work for you. Because that’s what you’re doing during your flow state activities. You’re putting the phone away and that’s allowing you to really come back to the present moment. 

KENDRA: I like that hack, Lauren. I think that’s something that for me personally, I’m working on right now. I find that when I am on my phone at night before bed, it’s just you just have no it just feels yucky just doesn’t feel good. So yeah, it’s just not a nice feeling.

LAUREN: How are you doing with that? What are you doing to not? 

KENDRA: Well, I actually spoke to Jesse, my husband about it because I asked him for support with it. Because I said I just find that I can’t get out of this right. And so he’s, we’ve spoken about some ways, and one of them is, you know, let’s put the phone away in a different room and font, also finding activities that can help substitute. So now I’m really into this book that I’m reading. And so I’m finding that I’m making time to read at night before I go to bed. And that’s been helping a lot.

LAUREN: That’s exactly what I’ve been doing. It’s funny that we’re both doing this at the same time. I found a book, but I normally do audiobooks, but actually found a book that I’m enjoying reading and the last few weeks have been great because sleep with my phone in the kitchen and bring the book in. And the idea is that if the phone does happen to come into the bedroom with me, which I would rather not, but if it does that I just put it right back out there. Like it’s just acknowledging that happened and putting it right back outside the next night. 

KENDRA: Another tip I found is that you can actually put your phone in that sleep mode during certain times. And so that helps to eliminate, you know, all that all the apps shut down and you can’t access them unless you obviously click through a few things. And so I find that that’s been helpful as well. But it’s yeah, it’s interesting that you mentioned that because it’s something I really want to continue working on and become a little bit Yeah, a bit more consistent with it. So, Lauren, I’m curious about flow for you. What is life like when you’re not in flow? 

LAUREN: To me, that’s when I have too much on my plate. So if I’m looking at my calendar, and it’s completely packed with a bunch of tasks, then I usually am not able to get into flow state. If I feel like I’m maybe, like, you’re stuck in my trying to like, move forward, and it’s hard to do the tasks. And that’s usually because I’m distracted by all the things that are kind of going on in my schedule. And when there’s clutter, so that could be mental clutter with, you know, all this stuff to address. Or maybe I’m avoiding something or avoiding a discussion. And that creates mental clutter. Or when there’s clutter in my environment. So if I have a messy space, like messy desk space, and there’s a whole lot of mess in the kitchen, it’s really hard for me to get into flow state. 

KENDRA: I also think when I’m in a stressful situation, and I feel like I’m losing control as well. So right, I noticed that yeah, that I feel that I’m not in flow. So it sounds like when you’re distracted, not feeling like you can fully set aside mental space to engage in an activity is when you’re not in flow. That’s right. To learn, and understand that flow occurs in your life when you’re challenged and fully engaged in the activity. When does flow occur in your life?

LAUREN: For me, it’s when I serve, I was describing before how you know, breaking down the activity so that it’s still challenging. And it’s funny, because I moved back to South Carolina, learning to surf here and learning the waves here has created a new challenge for me. So it’s now also a flow state activity for me again, and when I work on activities that I absolutely love. So when I do things and projects and activities that are a hell yes, for me, I can get into flow state. And another way and time that I’m in flow are when I can focus on one priority at a time. And when I’m just very clear about what my one goal is for the week, and one task that I will complete within these 90-minute intervals. So I normally set up my schedule and 90-minute intervals to complete one task at a time. And to get into what cow Newton calls deep work. So I Don’t multitask. And when I put my phone away, I work from home, and I actually hide my phone under my pillow because out of sight out of mind. Obviously, I know it’s under my pillow. It’s just that not looking at it, not having it even when I run to the restroom, it’s not in my eyesight. I can’t see it to grab it. I was gonna say to a lot of people, that this is a bogus idea because they think they have to be available 24/7. But I can tell you this unless you’re on call as a physician or a doctor, or a nurse like there really, there are times where you can be uncontactable. 

KENDRA: Wow, it’s just so funny because I know that sometimes when I just randomly call Lauren in the day, and I know when she doesn’t answer, I always think, Yep, she’s got her focus time on. I know, and I know you’ll call me back when you’re free.

LAUREN: Exactly. Yeah. And that’s exactly what I do. Because it’s the only way to get things done. Otherwise, you just are at the disposal of everyone else’s needs on your phone. Yeah. Another time when I feel like I’m in flow state is when I work or play with others. So whenever I’m serving with others or doing any kind of brainstorming with other people, I can get into flow state. What about you? When does it occur in your life? 

KENDRA: Yeah, for me, I, I experience it when I’m either mentoring or educating within a Pilates program. So I find that that’s a time when I’m challenged and, you know, having to Yeah, to really try different taking on different roles. 

LAUREN: And that’s so interesting because that would be the definition of play is when you’re trying out different roles, different activities are different movements than your norm. And when you can switch back and forth. And mentoring would be a different role for you. Because you’re, you’re and teaching, you’re doing that for different people. So it’s like when you think about acting like you’re taking on these different roles, and I bet that it is also fully invigorating for you it sounds.

KENDRA: Yeah, absolutely. And I also find when I’m moving mindfully through a new, challenging Pilates exercise, I find that that is when I can I’m in that flow state as well. Also, when I’m taking time to play through riding a bike, for example, don’t you know on the beach, I find that that’s also a time as well as example, right now, when I’m recording this podcast I’m in, I’m in flow.

LAUREN: 100 percent. 

KENDRA: We’re together, you mentioned, our phones are away. They’re on silent. And it’s fun, and it’s playful. So I find that I’m in flow when we do this, which is really fun. 

LAUREN: Yeah, I do. I agree. I think that this is one of my favorite flow state activities. 

KENDRA: Right? So this is our flow state. And how would our listeners create these conditions for flow? 

LAUREN: Well, it’s interesting because you can’t force flow, but you can invite it to a court more often in your life. So even in areas of life where it might seem unlikely, of course, flow isn’t guaranteed when you pick up your paintbrush, your hockey stick, your surfboard, or your flute. But you can best fan the flames of flow, by doing things that you love, aiming to like, really surprise yourself, and discover new things about your abilities in your activity. So instead of thinking about play, which we’ve talked a lot about, so trying new activities, choosing an activity that can provide you with new feelings, experiences, and insights, and allowing your feelings and awareness to flow without attempting to interfere or critique them, is another really big indicator of how you can create those conditions for flow, and paying attention and being present and mindful with your body sensations in your posture, which we talked a lot about. Yeah, I like that one. This is something that you teach and that I’ve become really aware of over time, because of how you kind of give those instructions on your body awareness and overcoming the urge to stop at every mistake. So you’re likely to be your best when you focus on what you want to accomplish or experience. And don’t allow mistakes to be distracting, where you can just keep moving, you can learn from your mistakes, and where you can really get to know the key messages from those mistakes, but do not let them stop you from continuing moving forward with whatever the new activity is. And then it’s interesting meditation and mindfulness support flow state, a huge part of achieving play state is being able to concentrate and filter out distractions. And meditation sharpens your mind to do just that. So it can also help you accept that physical symptoms of nervousness are normal and will naturally ease off once you get going. So meditation can be a really good way to practice, to start doing in order to have more opportunities for flow, and maintaining your sense of humor. And as we know, eliminating distractions is really important.

KENDRA: Yeah, I really, I think that I really like maintaining your sense of humor, too. Because I think that’s a really important element for all of us in life, you know, just being able to, you know exactly what you said, even with the making mistakes and not getting so weighed down by that and having that sense of humor and saying, okay, you know, how that reflection time and then, you know, moving on, I suppose, and not letting that really, really weigh you down. So how do you create more opportunities for these flow experiences? 

LAUREN: So for me, I think I’ve covered a couple of them where I was saying, with distractions when I’m working, especially when I put my phone under my pillow, I also do this thing called Focus mate, which I love. And it basically has 25 or 50-minute intervals where you have a work buddy that’s on your computer, you have 30 seconds to check in with each other and say the exact activities and tasks you’re going to complete within that time bracket. And after you have your 30 seconds, you can mute your mic if you want or keep it on depending on what you prefer. And then at the end, you check in for 30 seconds to say what you completed. And it gives you all the things you need for flow state with accountability, having somebody else there, and this called it for ADHD people or for NORAD or neurodiverse people this is really useful to have a body double when you’re completing an activity and not someone that you’re necessary doesn’t have to be working on the same task but you’re there together working in the same space on different tasks can be really useful. So kind of focus on it creates the conditions for flow and it gives those the body double and they accountability and the distraction-free because the thing that you agree to do is to not have your phone near you and not unless your task for that session is to make a phone call like you have to find your way. And then also use this other device called Apollo neuro, which helps like they have a lot of evidence supporting this device is a wearable, and it auto on artificially simulates human touch, which actually regulates your heart rate variability, and can allow you to focus and get into flow state more easily. So those are kind of the big things that I use. I’ve been there a couple of other things, but those are kind of the main ones. 

KENDRA: Yeah, I remember you, when you were telling me about focus, mate. And I think it is such a cool accountability tool. And I’m sure like you said, the task can be from, you know, clearing your email inbox out, or if you’re studying for an exam, or it’s pretty incredible. I think that’s such a cool tool. 

LAUREN: I have met people there who are doing Pilates, or, or yoga, they’re doing their yoga session, they’re working out when walking while he was working, another person was cooking. And I’ve met India, Africa, and all over the world. So it’s really, to me, it’s also just really interesting when you hear their stories, and oftentimes they’re people working on similar things. So that’s also useful for brainstorming. How about you? How have you created opportunities for flow experiences in your life? 

KENDRA: Definitely, like trying new hobbies has been a big one. So obviously, when I was when we ran that 10k, for example, that was something that I haven’t been much of a runner in the past. And so that was something that was really, yeah, it was great. And I’ve also booked in to do tennis lessons. 

LAUREN: With you wanting to do that. I’m excited. 

KENDRA: Yeah. Oh, yeah. It’s gonna be very challenging for me. I mean, I signed up for like tennis 101. Good. Yay. I certainly well, it’s gonna be pretty, pretty entertaining. But I know it’s going to be something that’s obviously physically, you know, physically active, and it’ll be very mentally challenging for me. So, and then similar to you decluttering my space just to help me focus. And then also just choosing really clear goals. Yeah, I think that’s another way to create that opportunity for more of those flow experiences.

LAUREN: Yeah, I think that’s a really good point. Like being clear on your goals. And my coach actually has a coach that helps me do this. It helps she we basically, I bring to her the things that are going on that week, and we decide how I’m going to clear out my schedule and how I’m going to focus on my one priority and set the boundaries where they’re needed so that I’m not getting distracted, because there are so many things that we all want to be involved with, especially for us when we just moved back to South Carolina, and we’re making connections and all of those things. But sometimes you just have to get really clear on the things that are possible so that you have the opportunity to get into flow state in those moments. 

KENDRA: For sure, for sure. Thank you for your insight on flow state Lauren. For listeners who are interested in flow state, I know that your flow online course can help create optimal conditions for experiencing a flow state. 

LAUREN: Yep, that’s right. I offer a five-week course that is fully self-paced and online that you can access now to help you build the habits to have a regular mindfulness practice and it also gives you the strategies to support you to emotionally regulate, which allows you to set the optimal life conditions for flow. It will give you the skills to prioritize and set boundaries to help you reduce that mental clutter. And you’ll find all this information on my website, drlaurenhodge.com and we’ll share it in the show notes. 

KENDRA: Awesome. Well listeners, please feel free to send through any questions you have for myself, Kendra on Instagram. You can also connect with Lauren through her website at drlaurenhodge.com. So we’ll see you next time.