Episode 006: How to Create and Maintain Friendships
We know that humans are wired for connection. So how do we connect, maintain friendships and meet new people? Especially, when social anxiety is higher than usual across the globe and we are in a new location or difficult season of life.
This episode will relate to everyone because we are all trying to remember how to connect and socialize after living in some degree of isolation during the pandemic. This episode is about how to create and maintain friendships.
We cover the reality and challenges when making friends in a new location, maintaining friendships over time, tips and our experiences with finding our people.
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How to Create and Maintain Friendships
Lauren Hodge: We are all currently trying to remember how to connect after living in some degree of isolation during the pandemic. Also, a lot of people actually moved cities and states and countries during the pandemic. We know humans are wired for connection.
The question is, how do we connect and meet new people when social anxiety is higher than usual, we’re in a new location, and we’re trying to make friends?
Challenges and tips for finding friends in a new location and our experiences for meeting our craving for connection.
Kendra Till: Yeah, that’s absolutely right Lauren, and there’s actually research showing that the presence of social relationships has a positive impact both mentally and physically. That contributes to an individual’s general wellbeing, whereas the absence of social relationships can potentially increase an individual’s susceptibility to psychological distress.
Lauren Hodge: Yeah, that’s really true, I think, for so many people. Some research findings show that social isolation can lead to higher rates of anxiety and aggression. So I think, any type of removal of social interactions for a prolonged period of time is usually having a negative effect.
I know there are a lot of people who actually need some downtime in between interactions, to not socialize. It’s not that we have to always be out socializing. And someone who is needing more space in their social calendar isn’t going to be anxious and angry- that’s not what I’m saying, but social interactions in general are important for mental health.
Kendra Till: I think those relationships, you know, they can be key players in affirming that sense of self, and also life satisfaction and fulfilling a basic human need for belongingness, too, isn’t it?
Lauren Hodge: Yeah,that’s interesting that you mention the human need for belongingness because that is something that other researchers have looked at.
There was an article that was published in the Journal of Social and Personal Relationships by Jeffrey Hall that found that it takes roughly 50 hours of time together to move from being a mere acquaintance to a casual friend; 90 hours to go from being a casual friend to having that general friend status; and 200 hours to consider someone your close friends.
That’s how much interaction you need to feel somebody is a friend or to label them as a friend. Also, a big part of this is the type of interactions that you’re having with someone. This is what fosters that sense of belongingness. I think those interactions are really the ones where you’re hanging out, and you’re just catching up on your day. And you’re, joking around or, having a chat on the couch, are the interactions that really matter the most.
Kendra Till: That’s really fascinating. And I just have to say, 200 hours seems a lot. It’s a lot of time to spend with somebody, but I guess that’s also creating that sense of trust and being able to confide in with that person to discuss problems or important matters. I guess that time allows for those conversations to happen too, doesn’t it?
Lauren Hodge: Yeah, that’s exactly right. You can’t just snap your fingers and make her a friend, we have to actually build the time to do that and to check in and to remember the little things that are going on in their life. your first anniversary is today, isn’t it?
Kendra Till: Oh yeah, it is.
Lauren Hodge: One year anniversary for your wedding, right?
Kendra Till: That’s right. Jesse and I had a few laughs because this is the proper official wedding anniversary, but then we had a giggle because we also have an anniversary in June, which is when our first wedding was supposed to be scheduled. So even this morning when Jessie said Happy anniversary, it’s, well, technically, we’ve been married for two years, since our first wedding in 2020. But thank you, that’s, that’s really kind of you.
It is important, with your friends, to have that sense of connection and knowing of what’s going on in their lives and vice versa. It can be really important and creates that sense of trust and belonging.
Lauren Hodge: It is, it’s really fascinating. We are humans wired for connection and we have to put in the time. For me, this can be difficult, because I want to be really efficient, and so I don’t small talk, I don’t really enjoy texting on my phone.
Usually I wait until a certain period of the day, and that’s when I go and respond to the text messages that I have. I’m not one of those back and forth texters, but those back and forth conversations, where you just pick up the phone are really important. I prefer to just see people in person.I’m, “Okay, we’ll meet here and then we’ll connect” I think this is actually probably an important piece of information for me to take on.
Thinking about the challenges in meeting new people and attempting to make friends and build a community in a new place, there are a lot of things that come up.
Kendra Till: Absolutely, I think probably now more than ever, there seems to be more challenges and just referencing what you said just before about the amount of time it takes to actually establish your friends.
Before you can even get to that point of having more than one interaction with a potential friend, you have to meet with them and reach out to old friends. So this, this is the part that can be quite challenging. And especially in today’s environment as well, we’re likely to encounter these polarizing situations and conversations around important topics, including vaccines, Roe versus Wade or climate change, and gun control, just to name a few. So this can potentially prevent someone from fostering a friendship or even creating a new friendship with an individual with opposing views. This can also be a challenge that we face.
Lauren Hodge: I think there are ways to have these conversations that we’ll talk about later. But yeah, this is one of those things where it’s, “hey, if this person has these views, do I want to be friends with them?” That’s actually something that people are taking into consideration now before moving into a friendship.
We also have these very extreme views on either side of the spectrum, where there are a lot more people fitting into the extreme views on the left or right, and it’s creating this barrier for some people for making friends and connecting.
Kendra Till: Yeah, that’s such a good point. Another challenge I want to mention is just this sense of fear or being self conscious of going deeper, a level of vulnerability that can go with creating these friendships. Going back to that 200 plus hours of these interactions that you’re having. Opening up can create this sense of trust when you’re confiding in somebody, and again, you’re discussing either problems or important matters. And for some that can be really scary.
Lauren Hodge: Yeah, the opening up aspect, and knowing what to share and when to share it, and if it’s okay to trust this person. I’m sure there’s so many pieces there that can be difficult, or maybe someone feels they’re a burden if they’re asking for support, when they are asking for the things that they need from friends.
Kendra Till: That’s right, you mentioned that sense of burden. I’ve actually heard people say that before, that they don’t want to feel a sense of burdening that other person. And it actually can create a deeper connection. Some people are just really hesitant to do that.
Lauren Hodge: Yeah, that makes sense. As we get older, we’re also looking for quality friends over quantity. I would rather have a handful or two of really close high quality friends. I think that volume and the number of friends we have is something that probably mattered to us when we were younger, because it means that you fit in or you’re popular- you maybe felt you ‘made it’. Things happen though, and we lose long term friends over time through death, depending on age, and all the other psychological things that go on, to falling out, a new chapter in life changing and growing, and all of that.
I think quality is a big one, and can be a challenge because it’s what are the indicators of quality. Then thinking also about everyone using their phones to supplement social interactions, where we get these feel-good hormones released, whenever we’re using our phones, to the number of s that we get on an Instagram post or story. You’re feeling these really good, feel-good hormones. And it’s tricking your brain into thinking that this is what you need for social interactions.
It’s really important to still have in-person interactions, knowing that you’re not going to get the same feel-good hormones when you’re socializing in person and meeting in person for the first time. It might be a little bit awkward, you will not get the same feel-good hormones, then, as you do when you get 200 s on an Instagram real or something. But knowing that it’s those in-person social interactions that lead to long-term positive health and happiness.
Kendra Till: I think also, we were conditioned during the pandemic period because we were unable to see people face to face as often as we probably would have d to. That was our only way to reach out to people. But now that we’re emerging from the other side of it, we have to put in the effort to make these face-to-face touch points and conversations with people to build quality friends.
Lauren Hodge: Yeah
Kendra Till: Right, for sure. Another challenge is that some people can struggle to admit that they are lonely. So, you know, if you find you’re lonely and self-isolated, particularly in this midlife period, sometimes we can tend to think that it’s a personal failing, and then that can cause a sense of shame that could potentially prevent us from seeking out new friendships as well. So I think that’s another one.
Lauren Hodge: Yeah. For single people, there can be a sense of loneliness, because you’re not getting the same interactions with others. I think loneliness stems from not getting that same form of coregulation. Having other human bodies around to socialize with or when you’re experiencing a hard thing can relieve the stress for you so that you can work through it and feel a little bit calmer in their presence. So anyways, that all makes sense, and admitting that you’re lonely, I’m sure would for some people be difficult.
Kendra Till: Yeah. And just another challenge I want to mention too, and this is something that I’m finding at the moment is just reconnecting with old friends. And what I mean by that is friends that I’ve had, you know, through even when I was living in the US, and I had been in Australia for 13 years and Lauren similar to you coming back into the US and then reconnecting with these friends either from college or you know, even earlier than that and just finding out.
What is important to you in those friendships and navigating that time frame, if you haven’t been staying in touch with them as much, just trying to find that common ground again.
Lauren Hodge: Yeah, definitely for sure. I think finding that common ground and reconnecting is interesting too. Because it’s, do you want to reconnect? How do you choose who you want to reconnect with? If you had the choice, I would think about Brene Brown’s book Daring Greatly when she talks about marble jar friends to explain the concept of trust. And she’s talking about her daughter’s experience of when she was significantly betrayed in the third grade when she shared a secret with a friend who then went on to share the secret with the class. And it was very embarrassing, and everyone in the class was laughing at her daughter, and her daughter was really upset when she picked her up from school. So when she was talking to her daughter, she used the concept of the marble jar friends to explain the types of friends that we want to keep close to us, and or to make friends with. And these are people that can hold your vulnerability with care, and understand what’s important to you. And they support your happiness without that urge to one-up you or steal the show or whatever they show up on
I think an excellent example of showing off is, I have a friend who is explaining to me these couple of really meaningful moments that she had when her parents both passed away at different times. And there was a friend of hers who just showed up and was there while she was organizing her father’s funeral. And that friend happened to have a Subaru she owned. So all she did was drive my friend around and the Subaru to get all the things done that she needed to do and to take things from one place to another and can pick up people from the airport or whatever. But she was with her the full time and just drew. And that was all she needed. And that one piece of showing up and that one act is what solidified her as a trusted close friend. These are ways I think, you know, I can think about the experiences that you may have had over time.
Kendra Till: That’s so fascinating because it is it’s stripping the ego a little bit and just purely coming down to that acts of kindness and being there wholeheartedly for that person without having you know, you said, you don’t have to one-up the other person is just doing it out of the pure goodness of your heart. And that can be felt.
Lauren Hodge: And they also encourage you to be brave. And they challenge you. And they willingly share avoiding that scarcity mentality, but they willingly, you know, share their thoughts and share with you their experiences that they’re having. And they enrich your friendship with small moments and actions that show that they care.
My mom was really sick last year at MUSC, which is a hospital here in Charleston, which is why I moved back here and that’s why I’m in Charleston is the friend who showed up while she was in the hospital the friends that were here in Charleston who really checked in with me and that had friends that worked at the hospital who even checked in on my mom when I couldn’t be there when I was in Denver and couldn’t fly because of COVID. I actually couldn’t go to the hospital and be with her, which is hard to talk about isolation and then not being able to go and you know, be there for your mother who is going through a lot. Yeah, as far as life or death type things. The people who showed up who checked in on her for me or who were here, and you know as to be there in support of me are the ones that I connected with in those moments, right?
Kendra Till: And that was just as acts of service that they provided for you during that time supported you in so so many ways emotionally probably even physically I remember that was a hard time for you being in Denver during that period. And I can imagine that just would have been such a huge, I guess relief Just knowing that that support was there and probably just helped you eventually, it did. Yeah. And also other things. Whenever I moved from Denver to Charleston, I had two friends that showed up at my apartment, they switched off, each night or every couple of nights, helped me pack all my boxes, label them, organize my stuff, all of it, so that I wasn’t doing that alone. And again, we were very isolated and diverse. So these are times where, you know, covid rates are high. And these types of things for them to do weren’t easy, but they still did that. And that’s why, you know, I think that’s another way we build trust by showing up for friends and doing that. I know you did this for me, too.
In Australia, actually, Kendra and I were moving to Melbourne when I was moving from the Gold Coast, and he showed up, I was, in the thick of it, really just I was, I can’t do, look at this closet. This has been 10 years of my stuff, and you were like “you’re not taking that, this is going to Salvation Army.” I needed someone to take over just as Jesus took the wheel freely. It is such an overwhelming process moving. And I can guarantee that so many of us are going to move or have moved in our lifetimes. And so that’s a little tip right there to be a good friend, be there for your friends when they’re moving. Because yeah, the same as your lawyer. You helped me mentally. I mean, when I remember calling you and I was about to move to the US, and I would just ask your advice on things, it was just such an overwhelming idea of moving internationally.
And there’s just a lot to consider, especially during the pandemic. And so Lauren, you were incredibly helpful there for me during that period, and you just gave me advice. And you were just there for me, which was so helpful. So thank you for that. And I guess in terms of, you know, just reflecting on that sense of, you know, as I mentioned earlier, the fear of self-conscious of going deeper into relationships, I guess I can think of a story when, I had gone through some fertility things, and it was a really difficult time for me, just to even understand what was going on doctor’s appointments, treatments, etc. And I kept it to myself, I became quite insular about it.
And I found that during that process of actually opening it up to my friend group, Lauren, even for you, I remember just talking about it and going through my thought process and my fears and my concerns. And, you know, there are a lot of tears, there are a lot of these really deep conversations that I was honestly scared to talk about. Because it’s almost that fear of the reality of talking about or the fact of talking about it made it a reality. So, looking in retrospect, that was so vital for my well-being at that time. And so, I opened up to a handful of really, really close friends and I know that made me know that made my friendship stronger. And it supported me in ways that I needed support, that I didn’t even know that I needed that level of support.
Lauren Hodge: It’s you reaching out and you asked for help, and they showed up, and they listened for sure, you’re a support system.
Kendra Till: But it can be scary, you know, some of these elements of going deeper and these, you know, let it be experienced that have happened in the past for yourself, or, you know, things that you’re going through currently, I think it’s just important to, you know, to seek out people that you trust and continue having those conversations or even starting those conversations because yeah, it can be it can enrich those friendships.
Lauren Hodge: Yeah, that makes sense. I think that’s so important to think about whenever we’re considering Yeah, who friends have cultivated relationships so I think to train new relationships with are the ones who’ve shared off that, I’m sure of it. Now so Kendra, and I did add a challenge this week. We knew we were recording this podcast episode so for the last week, we decided we’re gonna choose three activities for each of us to help us meet people or reconnect with old friends. I’m curious, how did you go with this Kindra with your three activities? Which ones did you choose? And how did they pan out as far as reconnecting with old friends or making new friends?
Kendra Till: Yes, that’s me, when we first set the challenge, I admittedly had a little sense of, oh my gosh, I’m a bit overwhelmed by this. But once I got into it, and I started to, I broke it down. I said, Okay, Let’s reconnect with an old friend. So I reached out to someone that I went to college with, to go for a coffee, and it was one of those situations where she was, Yeah, super keen to catch up, and we just couldn’t lock in a date.
So I think a little tip is that we’ll both have to be you know, not let that idea slip and make sure that we keep following up. So we do lock in something. Another thing that I did is I joined a new exercise class, which I’ve never done before in my life. It was so much fun. I’ve done peloton before, but it’s so different when you go in and you’re with other people, and you just get this whole vibe and energy. And so I went with A friend who was the instructor. So I went to her class, but I met a new friend through her. So I met someone that was right next to me. And so that was really lovely. And we had a good conversation. And so that was really nice.
Lauren Hodge: Is Cycle Bar, is it SoulCycle, where they give you inspiring, motivating things?
Kendra Till: Yeah, playing music was awesome. This is something that gets me because that can be quite competitive, but they put the leaderboard up there. And so during those times when you, you know, through a certain time period, you have to push really hard. And so it was just awesome. It was really fun. And I’m looking forward to going back there. But then the third thing that I did is I participated in a workshop that was something that I was interested in, it was called Happy hips. And so it’s just something that I’m interested in with my Pilates, you know, passion. And so I was able to go in there and meet like-minded people. So it was awesome. It was cool. So how did you go with your challenge? I’m interested to hear how you went.
Lauren Hodge: So I had a couple of things I was trying to meet new people and cultivate old, existing relationships. And so what I tried the first one was I started tennis lessons and I got this idea from you. Because I know you’re starting tennis lessons and want to find another sport outside of surfing that I can do a lot by just grabbing you know, in this case, grabbing the racket and going out to the tennis court and it’s close by. And it’s easy, but I have never played tennis a day in my life.
I went to a tennis camp when I was in middle school, but I don’t even know if we played tennis. I remember running around with my friends on those. I don’t remember playing tennis, which is funny. I’m sure we did. But either way, I don’t know how to play tennis. So I joined a tennis 101 class at Creekside Tennis and Swim Club. And I did meet three women who were part of the group. And we were, you know, chatting. And I think a lot of people do it to socialize. But it’s also just a way to open up more social activities because a lot of people play tennis and it’s a good way to get outside. Not a lot of people surf. So I’m finding that when I ask people to do stuff, I’m either asking them normally to go for a walk on the beach, or the other one is the extreme which is surfing. And that would be such a small handful of people that can do that. So I’m trying to open up my opportunities for meeting people through that.
Kendra Till: How did it go with your first tennis lesson?
Lauren Hodge: I’m terrible. I’m terrible. I honestly do this thing where my wrist is a broken wrist, which means the ball goes all the way off the court. So I’m having to learn how to hit the racquet without breaking my wrist. I’m hyper-mobile.
Kendra Till: But it’s a good way to invite friends to, “Hey, you want to go play tennis?” So you’ve got that under your belt, so you can offer that as an option. So that’s fun.
Lauren Hodge: It was fun. So then the next thing I did was I got tickets to this candlelight classical music concert. And I invited one of my girlfriends here to go to that and we went to dinner afterward. And we kind of, you know, connected And I mean, we normally would connect,
I think the thing that I don’t normally do is, reach out to activities and invite people to do them. I kind of just let that happen organically. But now I’m seeking out some, I love art, say, seeking out those types of things. And then the third thing was the plan was to serve on Thursday night with weights for women group that they just do a, you know, an open surf meet up and folly. But I think trying to do anything is on Thursday, at 530. Foley, which is about a 40 to 45-minute drive on at that hour, for me is optimistic because it’s a work day, and you’re usually finishing, I am finishing work at 530 or six. So already it would have been rushing it and I ended up working very late that night, you set a deadline. So I didn’t make it. I think I was trying to be overscheduled. I think I over-scheduled myself. And I think probably the most realistic thing for me is to try to do two activities a week and not try three. And
Kendra Till: It was ambitious, wasn’t it?
Lauren Hodge: I was very ambitious. I’m glad that I was committed to it. But then yeah, I definitely will do that. Just not that it didn’t happen this Thursday, don’t have to be on a weekend. I think they do a concert on Saturday. So I’ll probably in a couple of weekends. Try that. So yeah, I think it’s all off. It’s good. I had things planned for next week, too. So I’m continuing this idea of scheduling and stuff to meet people and to cultivate friendships and I’m enjoying it.
Kendra Till: Yeah, that’s such a good point, I find that I’m sick, similar to you, this has ignited me to keep up this trend of putting myself out there and meeting new friends. So what I found is that, although I’ve been intending to have it for six months, it’s not that long of a time. So I’m still wanting to meet new people. And I guess a nice little tip on this is that, in terms of creating friendships, is to ask yourself every morning, How can I feel connected today?” So it’s a really good mindfulness activity that helps to prompt you to think about ways to either meet new people or even to stay in touch with people. So you know, it could be a matter of Okay I’m going to make a point in my calendar to schedule or to sign up for that volunteer event within my community. Or if it’s, or even connecting with older or old friends, it could just be a matter of, you know, sending a text or an email that says, Hey, I’ve just been thinking of you, I hope you’re doing well. Or let’s catch up for a happy hour, something that. So I think that that’s been something for me. I want to continue that. And so creating that mindfulness exercise is going to help that.
Lauren Hodge: Yeah, I do that idea, especially putting it in the calendar to remind yourself to do it, because I’m a huge scheduler, if it’s not in the calendar, it’s not going to happen. So I did it. Whenever we decided to do that challenge. That’s where I first went to my calendar to say, okay, when’s the time, I can schedule this, I put the time in to say, let’s schedule three connection activities, and then put the time of the connection activities in my calendar as well. Because without that, making space for it, it’s not going to be a priority, you know, you have to prioritize it. So what’s so important? I do that, for sure.
Kendra Till: And I think another important tip with creating new relationships is what something and you and I both did as we practice to the courage to do it, you know Stripe being able to strike up conversations or, you know, I think it’s important to note that level of courage to create these new friendships. And then also just highlighting the importance of participating in becoming involved in activities or hobbies. an art class or an art language class or this is a good exercise which is w t we were doing for the cycle bar for you for tennis. I’m a huge advocate for that but it is a great way to meet new people and also just going places that to help meet minded people such as the park you know, if you’re taking your kids to the park or you know certain markets farmer’s markets, for example, I know I’ve met people in the past that I’ve become friends with through the farmers market.
A funny story. This is before I left Australia, and there was a lady that sold Ken Bucha at the farmer’s markets in Palm Beach, and I have been going to have for you ours to get my kombucha every Saturday. Go get my kombucha from her. And we would strike up conversations and they would be quite meaningful conversations. And she was just such a warm, lovely person. And you know, when it gets to a stage where I don’t even think we knew each other’s names, but we would just have this connection. And when I was moving, the last time I went to the markets, I was trying to hold it together the whole time, by saying goodbye to people, because I can get overwhelmed with those immense amounts of goodbyes when you’re leaving somewhere. And I went up to get my can of Bucha. And I told her, I was, you know, look, this is going to be the last time that I come in here. We’re moving to the US. And I ugly cried, Lauren, I was in hysterics, and she gave me the biggest warmest hug ever. And I still to this day, it was the sweetest thing. But anyway, you can meet really good friends at the farmer’s market.
Lauren Hodge: Yeah, I love that idea. And I’m not sure if you said that she is older. But I think what I also think is important is nurturing and finding new friends who are older people, meaning people who are in their 60s 70s, or 80s, who, you know, were impacted by the pandemic, people who are elderly, and people who have dementia, especially without this social connections. You know, they were some of the most isolated people, meaning elderly people. And so I think even without that, we have so much to learn from, wisdom to learn from the older people in our communities. And we don’t, I don’t do this enough, where I reach out to older people too, to kind of get to know them. And, you know, have those conversations. I know, one friend of mine does this, where she has an exchange with an older person that came out organically, that this friend of hers had a skill in editing and proofreading.
So she’s kind of become her writing and tour and they have weekly calls or weekly conversations. In the friend of hers, the older friend gets out of it, she’s getting that social connection out of it. And they talked about this, this is an interaction that is important to both of them. I guess another thing I think about too is when we’re in these social situations, it doesn’t matter. Older new friends, oftentimes, you’ll see people have their phones out or they’re on their phone, texting and doing that sort of thing. But a tip and a challenge that I would say for all of the listeners are trying next time you go to lunch, or you go to dinner, and you’re with somebody to not take your phone out of your purse or once everyone gets there because now you have to message make sure people are arriving if it’s a group thing that I once everyone gets there and is at the table leader put your phone in your purse and, and don’t allow it to be that distractor. After all, I think we’re all so distracted. Oftentimes when we’re in a conversation and not fully present. So there’s I think that’s an interesting thing to think about.
Kendra Till: That’s a great, great tip. And I have that challenge because I couldn’t imagine it’s probably going to be challenging for some people, but having that awareness because of the phone can be such a distraction. Such a distraction. Another tip and I just want to highlight this again, I know we’ve spoken about it, but just that sense of, you know, showing trust by sharing and being able to ask for help. So I think that it’s important, that having that level of trust and opening up can bind and create a sacred space within a friendship. So it just goes beyond that surface level, and you’re sharing parts of your life that are sometimes very hard or painful. But asking for help from each other is important. And providing and receiving that space creates a really strong bond.
Lauren Hodge: Yeah, that’s why I think asking for help is so difficult sometimes, especially for people who have more perfectionist tendencies, but I think in general, we’re not taught how to ask for what we need and ask for help from friends. So yeah, I think that that can build a closer bond, you just said, That’s interesting. Okay, so it sounds like what you’re saying as you kind of build up your opinion as you build these trust and bonds in a relationship by asking for being able to ask for help and ask for support and that makes sense. Sweet sense to me because I think there’s even a process of learning how to be self-aware for that to work. Because to know what to ask for, you have to know yourself, you have to know what your needs are, you have to do some journaling about what you’re meeting and avoiding or, you know, understand yourself to be able to ask for what you need.
So I think that it’s your kind of building a connection in multiple ways. So I’m just curious about this topic around polarizing conversations. You know, I was listening back during, in, 2020, when there are a lot of different topics coming up in the news around Black Lives Matter. And now we have the abortion topic there all of these polarizing topics that you mentioned. And I was listening to Chris’s activity, podcasts on Bing, and she talks about having humanizing conversations versus polarizing conversations. And I really d that and that it’s not saying to avoid, the polarizing conversations are saying, though, to focus on having when you have multiple people at a table, or in a room who have lots of different viewpoints, and they’re probably really outspoken about their viewpoints, that to focus on the parts of the conversation, or the parts of the topic that everyone experiences, instead of going to the extreme about, with abortion, instead of going to the extremes of, well, you know, babies shouldn’t be aborted at 38 weeks, nobody’s trying to abort babies that 38 weeks.
But anyways, the point is, we go into more of a humanizing conversation about, you know, so many people are having extra stress right now, from the changes that have happened in their own lives or personal lives from the pandemic. That’s a humanizing conversation. Another humanizing conversation might be about, you know, these are similar stressors that a lot of parents experience in life, while they are parenting, and managing children who are socially isolated, and for a long time, and the types of things that they’re going through. So it’s those types of conversations where you know, you can find a common topic, even though everyone has different experiences, to discuss and to talk about when we do have polarizing. When we are finding ourselves in these polarizing conversations, we don’t want to avoid them, right?
Kendra Till: That’s right, yeah. And if you do find yourself in a very polarized conversation, it can feel like walking a tightrope. And what you want to focus on is the why of the conversation. And that intention can almost act as a balancing poll when you’re helping to traverse the wire. And also to stay true to what you want to achieve from that conversation.
So a really good question to ask yourself or questions to ask yourself is, why am I having this conversation? And is my intent to convince someone of my position or is my intent to find a mutual ground? So I think that can be a really helpful way to Yeah, just to navigate those conversations. And as you mentioned, Lauren with Krista Tippett, actually suggests cultivating curiosity without assumptions, which I love. And she says, it’s almost a breeding ground for compassion, and open-mindedness. So just remember that everyone’s individual experience is really valuable.
Lauren Hodge: It’s okay to put words or script to that, it’s okay to say, hey, I respect your opinion, I don’t see it that way. But I respect that you have that opinion. And, you know, having something that is a way of saying something, I don’t agree, but I am listening, and then maybe getting curious and asking them about, where are these different things coming from? Where are they? Why do they think that way and just share openly? I do that, that tip, I think that’s so important is ensuring that you’re in the conversation to understand to, to, you know, with curiosity instead of in it to prove a point.
Kendra Till: Well, I’ll give you an example. Because especially in new relationships, so when you first meet somebody and so I’ll use an example where Jesse’s met a new friend here and they’ve been golfing together and doing a lot of activities together and have a lot of common ground but they do have very upset Using views on a particular topic, and that came up in conversation, and I was impressed when he came home and told me about it, that they were able to just understand that they had their differences, and that was respected, but they were still able to talk about it healthily, so it didn’t change their relationship. It didn’t, you know, prevent them from continuing into strengthening and developing the relationship. But I just thought it was really interesting.
Lauren Hodge: Yeah, and it does happen. And it’s an important part of it because we all are entitled to have our thoughts and beliefs and whatever. And we don’t want to cancel people just because they have different beliefs than us. We want to cultivate more of an understanding with them. So the other thing that I think about when we’re thinking about nurturing existing relationships is this thing around taking, I to call them girl dates.
So take a friend, a girlfriend out on a date, the candlelight, classical music thing that I went to. That’s what I was considering that and it’s, you’re you are kind of getting to know this person, you’re treating it you would date, where you’re not interviewing them, but you’re getting to know them at their core to see you is this somebody that I want to go from being a casual friend to a, a long term friend, and, but you know, doing that through exciting activities that you both enjoy together because that’s how you also build those connections is, is by doing things that, you know, having those deeper conversations, but also doing things that make you feel filled up.
Kendra Till: It’s such a neat, unique mindset, going into that, having that one-on-one time with somebody and you’re creating that space and going to do something together. And you’re having, you said those conversations, because similar to when you’re on a date, you want to get to know somebody and so you’re asking the important questions and getting, you know, I guess just getting to know them. And yeah, you can find out a lot about somebody in those more intimate environments, too. So,
Lauren Hodge: exactly. I think one question that I should ask in these situations, or one question that you could ask, and I’m curious about this, for a number of reasons, is about their love language. Now, your love language is really used normally and I determine your own love language or, and your partner’s love language, because knowing that information allows you to understand the ways that your partner might express and receive love, and how you express to receive love. Because oftentimes, those things might not be the same. But so you could be giving love if your love language is giving gifts.
So you might be giving your partner, you know, necklaces, and, you know, cute bracelets, or clothes or whatever. And then it turns out that their love language is, you know, quality time and spending time together. And at the end of your relationship, you’re wondering why this person says to you, I don’t feel loved in this relationship. I’ve been giving you gifts and that’s right, so you’ve been doing this thing that they actually do not receive as love what they receive is love what they see as love is spending time together. So the whole time you wasted 1000s of dollars and all these gifts that you didn’t have to do now. You know, that’s just one example. But that’s the idea around love languages. And we all want, we all have some probable percentage of all of the love languages across the board.
But you only have a primary one, those really nice things can help you understand what this person needs to feel appreciated. And I think using that, and a friendship can be really interesting, because it’s the same they’ve used the love languages, they translated it for the work setting for managers to understand how to praise or to show their appreciation for their employees. So depending on your love language and eating, yeah, it just kind of gives you a different way of understanding what somebody needs. So that they feel loved and appreciated and will, you know, want to continue that.
Kendra Till: Yeah, that’s really fascinating because I can see how that would be so useful, not only in the working environment, but also when I with our partners and friendships is to understand that those differences can really create the sense of I guess Understanding if we know that okay, exactly to your point if this person’s love language is acts of service, and this one is a gift to not to understand that they’re still showing love. And they’re just, it’s just different ways of doing it, and what resonates with them.
Lauren Hodge: What’s your love language?
Kendra Till: So I did the test, and I found out that my love language is quality time, so I feel connected with undivided attention. And this for me is, so you’re not sitting on the couch watching TV together, it’s actually you’re sitting in there, and you’re, you know, the TV’s gonna be off, and you’re actually having a conversation, without any sort of distractions, such as your phone. As you mentioned earlier, it could also mean, you know, going for walks together or grabbing a coffee together. So those are really, I guess, important to me. And, and taking that time to actually yeah, to spend it with somebody is my love, love language.
Lauren Hodge: So could love for you, does that translate into? Because, quality time can look different for everybody? Does that translate into? Could that be sitting on the couch with the phones away and the TV off and having a conversation? Or is it doing? And it could be both of these things? Or is it an activity together? Where you’re, you know, enjoying that activity?
Kendra Till: That’s a really good question. And I would say it would be both. I do love how I love having those conversations. But then I also love the activities together. So taking a cooking class together or, you know, if it’s going on a trip together, it’s that quality time. And in those realms, it’s just very, very important to me. And that’s, yeah, that’s my love language.
Lauren Hodge: That’s great. I was gonna say that would be. So if you’re meeting new people and wanting to do things with them, that would be your idea of going to a cooking class or something like that. Mine is also quality time.
Kendra Till: Interesting.
Lauren Hodge: In terms of socializing for me, that looks like music, going to see music art, together with the other person., that’s why I joined this one on tennis athletes doing one on one tennis once I learned how to play. And surfing together. I think I love those types of activities. And then I also really the deeper level conversations, you know, television off, we were saying, phone away and really getting to know someone and asking questions, even if we’re just at dinner, how are you really feeling and what’s really going on for you I am terrible at small talk, actually really bad at it. I can either go deep or just be silent.
Kendra Till: I admire deep conversations. And I’ve been with you and obviously you and I have had a lot of deep conversations. But when I see, you know, when I’m there, if it’s a smaller group setting, I just absolutely love your deep conversations and just the questions and you’re just so invested. And you’re such a great listener. So I love that.
Lauren Hodge: Yeah. And I mean, I think too, when we’re thinking about these different love languages, asking the person not only what their love language is, but what does that look for them because my mom’s top one is also quality time taught love language. And sorry, we haven’t gone through it. They all are. There’s quality time acts of service. Gifts, gift giving physical touch, and words of affirmation. And words of affirmation is actually my second one, but quality time, my mom, that’s one of hers. And when I asked her what that meant for her and her husband. And she said that it’s choosing a movie that they want to watch together. And then they’re, basically, if you watch a movie with them it is hilarious, which I do not do. Because this kills me when I don’t watch a lot of TV. But what they do is constantly, they’re commenting, and they’re chatting about the movie while it’s going on which is great. They love it. That’s their connection, honestly. And they love it and
I’m just, Okay, I’m out if we’re having a full conversation here. And I’m not sure what’s actually going on. I mean, sometimes it’s useful conversation because they’re giving background information if it’s a show that I don’t know anything about but yeah, that’s their idea of of quality time so for everyone, it could really be different for someone else that might be you know, driving and I one of my clients was saying that driving her parents it was driving to get a root beer float. Watching was their idea of quality time and I was that is really the sweetest thing I’ve ever heard of it. You know, I guess I can see driving to get the root beer float. But I don’t know, I’m not a big people watcher. Anyways, there’s all types of ways to look at it. But I think it’s just important whether you use the love language session, but, it’s more of just asking those kinds of questions to really understand anyone that you’re wanting to, fostering our friendship or relationship with that could be a fun way to do it. For sure.
Kendra Till: And you get to know yourself and what you know, it really helps to finesse the certain activities or words or gifts, you know, what is it in particular? How do you display your love? And you said reciprocation so and I guess it’s important not to necessarily pigeonhole yourself, if you find out what your love language is, and you said, Lauren, your second one was words of affirmation. So I can imagine that would have,, it was at a close second for you that net?
Lauren Hodge: Yeah. So just raise basically, yeah, kind of, specific indirect praise, about what I’m doing, or what I’ve done or anything about anything, really. That’s a big one for me.
Kendra Till: And I guess just then,, knowing that it’s all these, these necessary, they’re all necessary ingredients for a healthy relationship, you know, such as acts of service, or, you said, words of affirmation. So just knowing that, as it’s important to know that you love languages, but that it’s also all of the acts of kindness and acts of love that can play a big effect there.
Lauren Hodge: Yeah, I think the other side of this, too. So that’s one strategy that you can use. But I think the reality of what we’re experiencing is this, the struggle to get back out there and have conversations with people when we’ve been experiencing it. And when I say isolation, I’m also referring to everyone getting used to, only hanging out with their friend group, because you weren’t really allowed to,, expand that during COVID.
So a lot of people kind of have these weird social norms now, where, when you’re walking down the street before COVID,, you would probably give someone a smile or look at them. But then during COVID, we had the mask on and it felt weird to look at someone and make eye contact, and you definitely weren’t, well, maybe you’re smiling, but you couldn’t see it. And, you know, under the mask, and at that, I think that created this, a social norm and not even looking at other people or considering other people and interacting with them. Because I’m assuming so, I’m gonna give them COVID. If I look up, it was this weird thing where you had to wear that constantly.
Kendra Till: Almost a sense of anxiety, too, isn’t it?
Lauren Hodge: Yeah, that’s right, exactly. Okay. And I think I’d be interested to see the research on this, but from what I’m hearing from clients and friends, is that, you know, there’s a social,, there’s social anxiety that we all have from this isolation, not everyone, but most people will get more anxious and more isolated you are so if somebody’s norm for, for their anxiety levels, if we’re thinking on a scale of one to 10, if they are normally socially anxious, maybe they’re normally at a five or six, on that scale, after the pandemic are still in the pandemic. So,, after two and a half years in the pandemic, they might now be at a seven or an eight on that scale. So they’re feeling more anxious. Now for somebody who maybe was two or three socially anxious wise, they’re probably at a four or five, or even a six now.
So everyone’s just feeling just a little bit more anxious and getting out there. And I’m just curious, and I have not looked at this exact thing about is it NGS? I’ve heard a lot about this. But is it about talking to other people without knowing? Is there a fear on how to connect and what to say? Is it a worry about being judged for being boring, because we didn’t have a lot of exciting travel experiences during COVID? Or something? And, you feel you don’t have much to say, because you haven’t really had a life lately? Or is there? Is there something else there? That is making us feel anxious about it? Now, I know there is research that shows if we look at people who have been in isolation for a while,, I don’t know the exact time period, but if they are one of those people who enjoys socializing, they can actually, it can change their brain, too, because they’re in survival while they’re isolated, to make them feel those are the things that they enjoy that they enjoy being isolated, and so it becomes harder For them, once they’re out of isolation to connect, because they have kind of reworked their, safety, how they how, where and how they feel safe to saying, Okay, I do feel safe when I’m isolated. But really, we feel really safe when we’re around people, as humans and as being humans wired for connection. So I just find that very fascinating.
Kendra Till: That’s very fascinating. And especially because a lot of these isolation periods went on for quite a significant amount of time. You know, these weren’t little short, sharp, isolation periods, they were quite significant. And so it’s during the pandemic. You know, I know, in Australia, we had very long lockdown periods in particular, in this, you know, down in New South Wales, and Victoria. And so, and I’ve actually heard of friends, that they hadn’t been able to see their parents and two years, and they had commented on the fact that they notice a significant difference with their parents, and terms of how they, how they interacted, and just that level of, not fear, but just distance almost. So I think that’s really the same as you, I’d be interested to see what that research is.
Lauren Hodge: Yeah, I’ll find it. And I’ll share it in the show notes. But I mean, I know that basically, it’s showing that once we’ve been isolated, we’ve started to train our brain to accept that into things that we enjoy. So then, in my, my strategy, and this is not supported by science, but my strategy has been to make myself do those things anyways, even though I think, oh, no, I would actually really just prefer to sit home and read, which I do want to do. And I do that. But, when I want to go there, it’s doing what we did this week and scheduling these things. Because I do feel better. When I am connected to people, I do feel less stressed when I’m connected to people. So it’s almost doing the opposite of what you think you want. As long as you’re feeling safe. And you know, being able, you’re able to manage the things that are going on the to do list. I also think another interesting thing that I am curious about is if somebody and we saw this a lot where the drinking rates, right, were on a high during COVID, because of all of the things that were surfacing emotionally, and all of the things that are going on with people within their relationships. And so I’m curious if you had an addiction before COVID. And your addiction previously helps you mitigate your anxiety about socializing, that if you became sober during COVID, and now we’re socializing. So we weren’t socializing, when you became swinging, when you became sober. But now that we are, what does that look like ? When you’re now trying to socialize sober and be around people and you’re interacting with people there would be, I’m sure, challenges with that outside of just the ones that we’re talking about. Because you’re also thinking,, don’t want to be in a place that would maybe trigger that, or whatever the process is around, considering where and who to hang out with whenever you’re sober, so that the relapse is less likely. That you know, and I guess it also depends on what stage of sobriety you’re in, whether or not you would want to be around those environments and all of that.
Kendra Till: that can really play such an effect, you know, to your point with existing friendships and creating new friendships. Because, you know, a lot of times in terms of when you meet new people around restaurants and bars, and you know, that can always be a way of, hey, let’s go catch up for let’s go happy hour, or let’s go out for dinner. And there’s a lot of time alcohol is involved. And so to your point, you know, coming out of that, you know, that pandemic, and yeah, it’s just that, that new realm of okay, well, what is this going to look for me?
Lauren Hodge: Yeah, and the realm of, you know, when you think about the activities that you’re putting in, and if you do this challenge, also of trying to, do three new things, finding things that for me, I’m not a sober person. I’m super curious, but I’m not, savor it. However, what I am curious about,, what I tried to do is scheduling stuff that isn’t centered around alcohol, because, I mean, you could do that at dinner, or you can do that anywhere else. why,, only find activities that are related to alcohol, and that’s just me, and I think that things that would probably be really useful in that space. So I challenge the listener to pick three activities this week to meet new people or engage with old friends. And you know, really try to kind of open up your circle if you’re wanting to meet new people and cultivate a community.
