Episode 019: Plant Medicine Therapy
In Shake It Off Episode 19 Lauren speaks with special guest Lisa Jacobson LPC, the founder of Present Life Counseling.
Lisa is a licensed therapist in Georgia and her practice provides plant medicine preparation and integration therapy. She also has a Master’s in Humanistic/Transpersonal Psychology from the University of West Georgia and she’s also a Registered Yoga Teacher, trained in Emotional Freedom Technique, and a Certified Integral Therapist (the first in GA!).
Lauren talks with Lisa all about her journey to becoming a plant medicine prep and integration therapist, how her practice focuses on supporting clients to follow their truth and communicate their needs and boundaries and integrate their plant medicine experiences.
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Lauren Hodge
Hi everyone, and welcome back to shake it off. I’m honored to have Lisa Jacobson on the podcast today. Lisa is a licensed therapist in Georgia and her practice, present life counseling, provides plant medicine preparation and integration therapy, among other types of support that we’ll hear about today. Lisa has a master’s in humanistic transpersonal psychology from the University of Western Georgia, and she is a registered yoga teacher. She’s trained in emotional freedom technique, and recently certified as an integral therapist.
Her practice focuses on supporting clients to follow their truth and communicate their needs and boundaries and integrate and prepare for their plant medicine experiences. These are areas that I’m deeply interested in. And I know there will be a lot of listeners also interested in knowing more about Lisa’s journey to becoming a plant medicine preparation and integration therapist, and she has practiced as a therapist for 10 years. Lisa, thank you so much for joining us. I would love to hear about your journey with becoming a therapist. And I’m curious what motivated you to become a therapist?
Lisa Jacobson
Thank you for having me, Lauren. It’s not really an easy answer. It’s a very complex answer. So I’ll give you the whole answer that motivated me to become a therapist. Well, when I was growing up I’ve always been a sensitive person. And when I was growing up, there really wasn’t language for that. But I was aware of things that maybe not everybody was aware of, I felt my emotions very deeply in a family where no one seemed to meet emotion in the same way I did, unless I had a grandmother that was diagnosed bipolar and had depression. Although I never saw her depressed. She didn’t cry, she wasn’t the type in the bed, like she was always happy. So it was kind of like I grew up in this paradox. Like I had big feelings. I saw someone that was diagnosed with something that really didn’t seem to line up. I had this big spiritual world. That was that I was kind of aware of as a kid, too. So spirituality was always intriguing to me. I’ve just kind of been a deep thinker. So psychology just really interested me.
I attempted to major in Psych 101, at the University of Georgia, and I could not pass it because that’s not the psychology that I knew in my heart. What I have come to know that I’d love is adult development, higher levels of development, which we really don’t talk about, I love to talk about subtle body awareness things which we also really don’t talk about. Which makes sense why a clinical psychology track wasn’t working for me. So I got my bachelor’s degree in Child and Family Development. That’s what I ended up switching to since I couldn’t pass psychology. And that was just perfect, because I love that I like to see how things unfold. I believe in the evolution of things. I believe in generational trauma, generational healing, all the patterns of families and all of that, so development seemed to really fit. When I decided to go back to grad school, I had found Naropa Institute in Boulder and California Institute of integral studies in California. But this was 1999, and I was young in my 20s.
I didn’t have the funds for private education, and found this program in West Georgia, which I had never even heard of, even though I had grown up in Georgia my whole life. And so I came here and it’s exactly what I was looking for. We discussed Buddhist psychology, which just blew my mind with a different way of thinking and awareness practices that I think are key for mental health, which a lot of counselors still don’t even talk about. We talked a lot about mind-body psychology and other cultures and the impact of cultural trauma, and the things that I really love that feed my soul but are so fascinating to me.
Lauren Hodge
I was just curious, did you know that the program would have all of those things all of the mind body connection pieces?
Lisa Jacobson
Yes, and that is why I went at the time I went for a master’s in psychology. So I’m 23 years old at this time, I was not thinking about the future, I was just thinking, Okay, I have an undergraduate degree, and I’m not making enough money here, I should probably go back to school, you know, get some more student loans in that generation, you know, let’s go back to school. And so it interested me, which is why I went, I didn’t do my private classes to be a counselor during that program. I did, however, I did do my practicum during that program, because I’m an experiential learner. So I just chose a practicum because I learned so much better that way, rather than just being in lectures all the time.
Thank goodness, I did a practicum because it’s required as part of your degree program now, which they don’t offer anymore at West Georgia in psychology they offer counseling, but not in psychology. So I feel so lucky that I had it. So after graduating with my masters, I went back maybe a year later to do classes in the counseling department. I think I had four classes left for the licensure requirements, and went ahead and took those classes. And yeah, I worked in an inpatient psych unit for about seven months before I realized the mainstream health care, psychology, mental health is not my place. And didn’t do counseling for a while. I taught yoga when I was in grad school, I got my yoga certification, too. So I taught yoga and opened a few restaurants and did something and taught and then not taught but parented, parenting is very important and intentional to me. And so I did that when my kids were young. And then after getting divorced, went back to take my licensing exam, got my supervision. And then after getting my supervision opened my private practice.
Lauren Hodge
Wow, I really appreciate that journey of, you know, starting with, it really sounds like even at 20 to 23, new yourself well on how to know, you know that you’re interested in Buddhism and mind body connection, and that sort of thing. And then that you allowed yourself to kind of go on that journey of opening restaurants, parenting, of doing all of that, to come back around in yoga, teacher training, because all like the yoga teacher training, all of these things are important. I think you can tell me they are important for preparation and integration therapy. Part of that is like that mind-body connection. So it’s interesting how all these pieces weave together to become who you are now.
Lisa Jacobson
Absolutely. Well, and then as far as another piece to that, which I mean, I’m fine to say, I grew up in South Georgia. So in a small town, there’s not a lot to do, obviously. So the kind of trouble you get in sometimes is going to a cow pasture and picking mushrooms and eating them. So I was never afraid of that. Yeah, like so. And when I think so I’m 45. Now, when I think back on my life, and like my early adulthood, I didn’t plan any of that, like I didn’t even seek out Buddhism or yoga, like all of these things just kind of folded into my life when I was in my early adulthood. So it just naturally integrated into my life. And I think I’m just realizing at 45 that that wasn’t the case for everybody. Because it wasn’t planned.
Lauren Hodge
Right? It was like a flow of things. It was just all worked out and which you gravitate towards.
Lisa Jacobson
And what I gravitated towards.
Lauren Hodge
Yeah, that’s incredible. So I’m curious then, when it comes to now practicing as a licensed therapist and doing the plant medicine, integration and preparation, what does that kind of look like for you? What does your normal day look like when you’re providing that type of therapy?
Lisa Jacobson
Well, I will say that it’s not the biggest part of my practice, just because of where we are right now in terms of legal status. And in the country. There’s not too many people that seek out preparation and integration for plant medicine. But it’s not really that different than the kind of therapy I’ve practice because I practice integration therapy and its integration of all of our different layers of body all of our different layers of experience, all of our different layers of consciousness and with awareness, practice being something that I’ve always had in my toolbox.
I know that a lot of times it’s about increasing perspective, it’s not about changing how we feel. It’s about making room for how we feel and just increasing perspective being big enough to hold it. And so in that way, whether it’s through plant medicine, or whether it’s someone even using pharmaceuticals or breathwork, or yoga or meditation, to me, it’s all integration and plant medicine is a different doorway in, but it’s like anything else. It’s not a light switch, it’s not going to change. It’s going to be the practice and how do we integrate it? And that, to me, is everything. How we integrate everything is kind of what we’re doing.
Lauren Hodge
That’s such an important point. That even if it’s plant medicine, that’s not the silver bullet. It’s your practices, your there’s not a silver bullet that information that matters.
Lisa Jacobson
Yeah, because there’s not one, there are 10. But then what we do with that is what matters. Yeah. And that’s a skill, really, and that’s a skill that, in my opinion, many of us were not modeled on, that we’re just to a point and maybe evolution and cultural evolution, I don’t know where, as a generation, we’re doing that. And so we don’t have a model for it. But we there’s a lot of people doing it.
Lauren Hodge
Yeah, and interested in that work. Do you mean there are a lot of people that are now starting to work in that space of integration, you think?
Lisa Jacobson
Right, and just self inquiry and wanting to, you know, expand awareness? And how do you hold everything you’re aware of? Because the reality is, if, if you’re aware, you’re going to experience anxiety and depression at times. And if you’re, if you’re ignorant, you’re probably not like if you’re, if you’re denial games are pretty good, or you’re pretty good at Stepping Out, or you’re just a very simple thinker that doesn’t question things. You might not experience anxiety and depression, but if you have awareness, you will and that’s not mental illness, it’s something else. It’s just something we experience when we are aware and awake.
Lauren Hodge
Yeah. And it’s like how do you what do you do that? And what do you do with that? Yeah, that’s really interesting. I like that way of thinking about integration and therapy work in general. Would you say as far as the king of the labor market goes when it comes to integration and preparation therapy that given that we haven’t yet got to the point of, you know, having FDA approval for MDMA for PTSD or psilocybin for depression and PTSD and that sort of thing? There’s the approval for for ketamine therapy, but that’s been around for a while, too. What are your thoughts on the the labor market? Do you think it’s a growing space where there will be a need for this, like to practice on track?
Lisa Jacobson
Absolutely.
Lauren Hodge
I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, I’m just curious.
Lisa Jacobson
No, and in fact, I tell people a lot. They’re like, I want to be in counseling. But I don’t know, I’m like, There’s only going to be an increased need for counselors as we become more and more aware of the complexities. As we’re shifting, something’s happening in our culture, we’re shifting and last few years, I think things are changing, there’s going to be more and more counselors, and specially with plant medicine work, it’s so important, because it’s not the silver bullet, and some people think it is. And so right now, there are a lot of options. The only options for people are to go to someone that’s not a licensed therapist, and have an experience where someone will sit with them or to go even out of country to to go to a retreat and have an experience. And that to me just feels not complete, because the integration piece is so important. It’s really the most important part to me.
Lauren Hodge
Yeah, I completely agree. I know, in the plant medicine experiences that I’ve had, like, that’s been the thing that’s brought it all together, and it’s the one time I didn’t have integration. You know, it was the time where I didn’t get as much from it as I did. I didn’t take the practices and do anything different basically, with my life based on the information that I received during the ceremony. So I can relate to that. So I’m thinking about legal and ethical issues. I mean, we know like we’re saying like the FDA hasn’t approved MDMA and psilocybin yet. Do you think there are other kinds of ethical and legal issues that you have to consider on a day to day basis as far as plant medicine or just therapy in general.
Lisa Jacobson
Well, always ethical issues to think about if you’re a therapist, for sure. Main one is just do no harm, you know, so A, I would never, ever suggest plant medicine or psychedelics to someone that that I thought was that had a personality disorder or, or a psychotic kind of tendency, first of all, and because of the legal issues, I don’t recommend it much anyway, I wait for people to bring it up to me. But yes, I don’t, because I have a self-pay practice right now, and it is a lot about personal growth, I don’t tend to have, I tend to have people that just like, they’re seekers, they want to seek truth, you know, they’re just interested in that.
So I generally don’t deal with people that have a bonafide mental illness or a psychotic disorder personality. So, but yeah, there’s always ethical issues. And I’m really big. I’m also a norm practitioner, which is the neuroaffective relational model dealing with complex trauma. And so I’m really big on clients, having their agency. I’m not going to tell a client what’s best for them. I don’t think they’re the patient and I’m the doctor. That’s not how I view it, and that’s an ethical thing to me to not make anybody think there’s another person that knows better about them than they do.
Lauren Hodge
Yeah, you’re on the same playing field as them. And you’re kind of walking through this journey alongside them.
Lisa Jacobson
To help them reconnect to themselves really.
Lauren Hodge
Yeah, that’s so important. So it’s kind of like connecting to your intuition, I imagine.
Lisa Jacobson
Yeah, because I think when we have experiences in childhood, or maybe they’re learned, whatever it is, and we build these adaptive roles, these survival roles, and then that’s what we’re living in. We’re not being authentic. And I like to help people, like, uncover and shed those in order to live more authentically.
Lauren Hodge
Yeah, so whenever I’m thinking about just therapy work in general and plant medicine work, I often think about the importance of respecting cultural traditions of the places where plant medicine comes from, but also for just thinking about cultural traditions of clients. How does understanding and respecting multiculturalism help you or support you as a counselor?
Lisa Jacobson
I think it’s imperative, I don’t know what a counselor can do without taking culture into effect. And that is also something that, and that has to do with perspective, like, we all have to realize that we see through the filter of our culture, and that anybody that comes through us, it’s going to be seen through the filter of their culture. And we have to honor that and respect that because it’s a, it’s a huge lens that they’re seeing through and so don’t just just think everyone has the same culture as we do, or to not be, you know, sensitive to that, I think is unethical for a counselor to do.
Lauren Hodge
Yeah, definitely. So, one question I am always interested in asking is about your personal, like self care practices. And, you know, when you’re, if you had to choose like one or two self care practices, when you’re in your highest state of stress, or maybe even just day to day, what do you do? What’s your go to?
Lisa Jacobson
I feel almost lucky that about seven years ago, I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. And so that made me have to monitor my stress on a daily level, like it’s a lifestyle thing for me and to the point where it’s also integrated into my life. I have a client that I can manage. I’m not a counselor that can see eight clients in a day. I have a regular yoga practice, I make sure I get eight hours of sleep, and make sure that I get at least 30 minutes of walking, you know, in a day or something. I just have little things now that are built in that are my, they’re my cornerstones and what helped keep me grounded for sure. But then I’m also a fan of just, you know, crying when I’m mad, or crying when I’m sad. And when I’m mad, I release that in a healthy way. I just allow it all and I let it move and I just try not to let things build up.
Lauren Hodge
Yes, I like that. I like having a form of being able to release the build up of things or the things daily so they don’t…
Lisa Jacobson
Right and I recognize the privilege I have in creating this lifestyle. Okay, this is the hours I want to work and how many you know how many people I can see and that it’s work and I recognize that not everybody has that and I feel very grateful for that.
Lauren Hodge
Yeah, I think that’s also, you know, says a lot about, like the work that you’ve had to put into being able to be able to do that too. And to be intentional about, like, how you’re spending your time, that sort of thing. Because I know that that’s not always easy to do, like, you know, to be able to say yes to certain things and know that, like you’re fitting in time for yourself. So important.
Where can our audience find you, I know you have presentlifecounseling.com is your website. Your Instagram is interval_LPC and then Facebook is Lisa Jacobson. LPC.
Lisa Jacobson
Yes.
Lauren Hodge
Excellent. Well, we will put that in the show notes and make sure that everyone knows where to follow you and to get more information on the services you provide.
